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Rhetta Standifer's avatar

Hey Ben

Yeah! Porto #1

One thing about the monthly cost though. The €2,500 to €3,000 a month seems a bit low to me. I've been looking at apartments in Porto and around Porto in areas like Villa de Nova Gaia, and if you want 2-3 bedrooms, what I'd think of as a "decent" size (80-120sqmeters), elevator, you'll be paying higher prices. And that's without air conditioning. That's fair - I expected that. But it raises the monthly costs.

I think(?) that a lot of American retirees who were home owners in the States, might be used to: 1) larger homes (3-4 bedrms), 1000-3000 sq ft, 2) air conditioning, and 3) "American" yards, which are fairly big. Even if they go the apartment route in Porto, I wouldn't be surprised if they come wanting an apartment with at least 2 bedrooms and 100 sq m. Now, granted, I'm limited to what I can see online with my limited knowledge right now. But the rates I'm finding for that, even unfurnished, doesn't keep expenses under 2500.

We're fine with that, Ben. I'm not upset at all, just want to make sure you understand that! But in terms of your article, I wanted to give you my "two cents" of info, so to speak. :)

Benjamin Hies's avatar

That's a great addition Rhetta!

The numbers are coming from Numbeo (as lifestyle is quite subjective, as you mentioned with your criteria for Americans) because I wanted some sort of "anchor" that makes the numbers comparable amongst the named cities.

But yes, if you're looking at 100 sqm+ and 2-3 bedrooms, you can most likely add 50% or more to the overall number.

Still a bargain compared to the US ;)

Rhetta Standifer's avatar

Absolutely! The housing costs, even with what we would be looking for, is cheaper in Porto than what would be facing us in most areas in the US, especially when you factor in current loan rates these days.

That doesn't even get into other costs in the States like healthcare, which is out of control. Healthcare costs alone is enough to make retirees look abroad.

One thing we personally like about Porto is we wouldn't have to buy a car. That takes a huge cost off the table. If we want to travel, we can take the train or rent a car.

Thanks Ben! This was really good info!

Dr. Eric Lullove's avatar

Can't wait -- this is the purpose of our trip in October. heading to Bilbao, Porto, Lisbon. I'll admit, the trip to Bilbao is more about San Sebastian (we're major Michelin foodies)......

Benjamin Hies's avatar

Once you eat food in Bilbao, you're comparing it to every other city in Spain ;)

Julie's avatar

San Sebastián is the best! (IMO)

Benjamin Hies's avatar

I also love Barcelona, but different vibe ;)

Amber's avatar

Hi Ben. I’m a little surprised that nothing in Malta made the list, given the territorial tax system and English as an official language. What kept Malta off the list?

Benjamin Hies's avatar

The reason is actually quite simple.

I have another piece planned, that also includes the tax angle that you mentioned, and Malta is on this list ;)

So you basically (inadvertently) teased on what's coming next 👀

ADjerz's avatar

Hi Ben, can you add a bit more in a future post about each of these spots and how easily it connects to the rest of Europe (by rail) and more about the health care.

Great info!

Benjamin Hies's avatar

Hey, thanks for the comment, and sure I will keep this in mind. For healthcare, I posted this one in the past: https://www.clubcitizen.co/p/3-healthcare-strategies-expats-use?r=qtunb in case you have not seen it yet. Also in the country specific guides, there is often healthcare included. But let me think about how I can make this even more prominent!

Julie's avatar

For US citizens, you can deduct your Spain taxes from the following year’s U. S. taxes.

Benjamin Hies's avatar

Yes, the FTC works between the US and Spain, good addition!

Anonymous's avatar

Thank you for a very informative post

Tough call on which I would favor … all are very interesting … they seem to be directed towards a warmer winter season

For those of us already living in the US with mild winters (i.e. southern half of country) looking for a summer season escape from the heat and humidity, do you have any suggestions?

Benjamin Hies's avatar

You could have a look at Latvia, they have interesting retiree visa options. Also Uruguay has seasons, opposed to many other LATAM countries. Apart from that, you can also use the 90 day Schengen window for a summer escape, without even getting a residency, and spend time in Northern Spain (e.g. Galicia) or the Nordics (Denmark, Sweden etc.).

Anonymous's avatar

Thanks. Any of the Baltics could be interesting. I lived/worked in Sweden (Gävle) for 5 years and spending summer there is wonderful, however it likely is a bit too expensive (more research needed). I then lived/worked in Uruguay (Colonia) for 5 years and enjoyed it. While not a Wisconsin winter, the cold seems to go right through you so not an ideal “summer” escape. After a stretch in Louisiana and Florida, I been in Germany (Bavaria) for 5 years. This summer has been Florida temperatures with much less humidity. So Germany at a higher elevation might be comfortable although not clear about cost (currently not absorbing full cost of living here).

David's avatar

Happy to see Paphos on the list, I love it! Cyprus has the cleanest waters of EU countries (2026), and Paphos has terrific swimming area in the heart of the harbor, in lower part of town. I haven't seen anything else like it in Europe!

Benjamin Hies's avatar

Paphos is a great place! I cycled quite often from Larnaca to Paphos (wouldn't recommend that for everyone, it's quite a trip). Paphos has a great calm vibe, but still a lot of driven people. And the tax incentives in Cyprus are still great.

David's avatar

I think you identified the only drawback to Cyprus: the bureaucracy takes a long time to move, especially when applying for anything more than the one-year residency/renewal. It took a friend of mine 8 years to get his PR, instead of the promised 5 years.

Benjamin Hies's avatar

Yes absolutely. It went very well for me to get the Yellow Slip when I migrated, but that was due to being very charming (and also due to Covid they were not that busy). In Cyprus, many things are also done by have good connections. Nevertheless, if you have patience, still a great place to migrate to.

60 Seconds to FIRE's avatar

Off to Bilbao as part of a recce trip next week. Great article.

Benjamin Hies's avatar

Oh you have to report back on your culinary experience please!

60 Seconds to FIRE's avatar

Lots of photos mate!

Ansis's avatar

It’s nice to only pay 7% tax but that’s only with respect to your local obligations. The country from which you draw your pension or cash flow will impose a withholding tax. You can file and get some back but you’ll be subject to relevant rates like anyone else.

Benjamin Hies's avatar

Yes absolutely. There are tax treaties in place between Greece and participating countries, and it's always important to check them (or let them get checked by someone who is able to read them) to understand the fine print of each program / treaty.

KZ's avatar

Most of these places got hit with this summer’s heat waves. Maybe Europe will start using air conditioning if it gets bad enough.

Benjamin Hies's avatar

I will do an article on places that are a little bit moderate when it comes to climate soon.

Rich Shipley's avatar

Albania?

Benjamin Hies's avatar

Albania has also good options, but it did not make my top 8.

GMP Nugent's avatar

All lovely places. Can I ask for a follow-on article on where to retire now that these places are getting too hit & dry for comfort?

Benjamin Hies's avatar

That's a great idea. Will put it on my schedule.

Katie Mestre's avatar

Maybe in practice you only need to prove minimum wage income for a D7 visa in Portugal, but for that amount you’ll be living in a ruin in the interior, certainly not in Porto or Lagos. They are not cheap places for sure.

Benjamin Hies's avatar

Oh for sure. I don’t know of anyone who’s able to live on the threshold amount, especially in places like Porto.

Katie Mestre's avatar

I haven’t got any personal experience with the D7 but I heard from others you need to prove 2-3x that, despite what they say!

Terry (she/her)'s avatar

Why is I never the UK? Cost? Genuine question. York looks beautiful.

Benjamin Hies's avatar

The UK simply does not have a great retirement visa option. Otherwise there would be few cities I would recommend ;)

Erin's avatar

To my knowledge it doesn't have any retirement option, great or not. Their original retirement visa, again to my knowledge, was eliminated several years ago.

Benjamin Hies's avatar

Yep, absolutely. That’s what I meant, I phrased it poorly.

Scott's avatar

Retirees really underestimate the favorable treatment that France gives to U.S. pensions and 401k’s. If you’re becoming a tax resident, France really is someplace you should look at.

Benjamin Hies's avatar

Yes, France really is interesting when it comes to tax. I have a piece on France coming out this Friday, where I also have a look at the tax situation.

Sorry, I have no name's avatar

Hi Ben, I wonder if you could adjust for short-term leases, say 3-6 months, if it works better for us.

Benjamin Hies's avatar

You mean for a strategy that involves e.g. Showbirding? Or rather going from place to place on few month stays?

Sorry, I have no name's avatar

More like few month stays. How common are those, and how do they differ in rate?